Game Thread: Aces at SIU

Discussions of all the Aces sports
Kyace
Ford Center Regular
Posts: 39
Joined: Sat Feb 25, 2017 2:14 pm
Fan Since: 1962

Re: Game Thread: Aces at SIU

Postby Kyace » Mon Feb 11, 2019 7:45 pm

[url][/url]Last year this same team had Taylor and Smith, two players better than any current active players, and finished with 7 wins in the league. Even Blake provided decent senior leadership. Does anyone seriously think Marty could have coached this team to a better league record?

NewburghAces
Casual Fan
Posts: 3
Joined: Sat Dec 29, 2018 7:20 pm
Fan Since: 1975

Re: Game Thread: Aces at SIU

Postby NewburghAces » Mon Feb 11, 2019 9:21 pm

Vampire Five wrote:
NewburghAces wrote:I’m not going to overthink this. Yes, the 2018-2019 Aces are usually going to lose the battle of the boards and commit several silly, unforced errors. I hoped 3-point shooting from Kuhlman, Feehan and Frederking would help neutralize the team’s deficiencies. It hasn’t happened.

From 3-point range, Kuhlman – 30.6%; Feehan – 34.6%; and Frederking – 35.8%. Together, they are shooting about 34%. I imagine these % are worse over only MVC games.

Feehan looks extremely rushed. Kuhlman and Frederking do not appear confident.


The truth is, The Aces don’t have one D-1 caliber player on the floor this year.


I believe they do have D1 players on their roster. But my point is that Feehan, Frederking and Kuhlman should be hitting more 3s than they are right now. If they do, the Aces will be win more games. Their ticket to play at Evansville and help the Aces be successful is to specialize in hitting the 3 more consistently. That takes a lot of practice and confidence. You don't have to be a blue chip to practice a lot and you don't have to be one to become confident.

GoAcesgo
Head Cheerleader
Posts: 897
Joined: Wed Dec 18, 2013 10:10 am
Fan Since: 1989

Re: Game Thread: Aces at SIU

Postby GoAcesgo » Mon Feb 11, 2019 9:38 pm

NewburghAces wrote:
Vampire Five wrote:
NewburghAces wrote:I’m not going to overthink this. Yes, the 2018-2019 Aces are usually going to lose the battle of the boards and commit several silly, unforced errors. I hoped 3-point shooting from Kuhlman, Feehan and Frederking would help neutralize the team’s deficiencies. It hasn’t happened.

From 3-point range, Kuhlman – 30.6%; Feehan – 34.6%; and Frederking – 35.8%. Together, they are shooting about 34%. I imagine these % are worse over only MVC games.

Feehan looks extremely rushed. Kuhlman and Frederking do not appear confident.


The truth is, The Aces don’t have one D-1 caliber player on the floor this year.


I believe they do have D1 players on their roster. But my point is that Feehan, Frederking and Kuhlman should be hitting more 3s than they are right now. If they do, the Aces will be win more games. Their ticket to play at Evansville and help the Aces be successful is to specialize in hitting the 3 more consistently. That takes a lot of practice and confidence. You don't have to be a blue chip to practice a lot and you don't have to be one to become confident.

The problem is the scouting report is out don't leave them open. In my opinion Evan should have the best chance because of his length and his release.

GoAcesgo
Head Cheerleader
Posts: 897
Joined: Wed Dec 18, 2013 10:10 am
Fan Since: 1989

Re: Game Thread: Aces at SIU

Postby GoAcesgo » Mon Feb 11, 2019 9:40 pm

Kyace wrote:[url][/url]Last year this same team had Taylor and Smith, two players better than any current active players, and finished with 7 wins in the league. Even Blake provided decent senior leadership. Does anyone seriously think Marty could have coached this team to a better league record?

If Taylor and Smith were leaving anyway and Simmons stayed I really believe we would have been 0-16 in conference.

Vampire Five
Casual Fan
Posts: 19
Joined: Sat Dec 29, 2018 11:54 am
Fan Since: 1962

Re: Game Thread: Aces at SIU

Postby Vampire Five » Tue Feb 12, 2019 12:30 am

I will stick to my statement, other than i’ll say it doesn’t apply to the two freshmen Givance and Newton, it’s too early for them to see what kind of players they will turn out to be. But for the rest of he roster, they are at the most one dimensional players, and my opinion not D-1 caliber players. That’s what makes it amazing what Walter and his staff have been able to achieve with them.

PurpleWhiskers
Bobblehead Owner
Posts: 358
Joined: Mon Jan 01, 2018 9:35 pm
Fan Since: 1977

Re: Game Thread: Aces at SIU

Postby PurpleWhiskers » Tue Feb 12, 2019 9:16 am

Vampire Five wrote:I will stick to my statement, other than i’ll say it doesn’t apply to the two freshmen Givance and Newton, it’s too early for them to see what kind of players they will turn out to be. But for the rest of he roster, they are at the most one dimensional players, and my opinion not D-1 caliber players. That’s what makes it amazing what Walter and his staff have been able to achieve with them.


With 156 D1 teams out of 353 ranked below the Aces and with players on teams above the Aces buried deep on the bench getting few if any minutes and with several hundred roster-filling walk-ons I guess you could also say that half of the players on D1 teams aren't D1 caliber. That raises the question, where are the hundreds of D1 caliber players it would take to fill the spots of the hundreds of non-D1 caliber players currently on D1 rosters? Are they sitting home waiting for a call? In my opinion the Aces don't have MVC First Team, Second Team, Third Team caliber players but with maybe an exception or two the Aces are D1 caliber. Arguing otherwise is a fart in the wind. I do agree that Walter has done a fairly decent job, but I will stop short of calling it amazing.

JohnU
Road Tripper
Posts: 146
Joined: Sat Nov 17, 2018 9:10 pm
Fan Since: 1966

Re: Game Thread: Aces at SIU

Postby JohnU » Tue Feb 12, 2019 10:01 am

Vampire Five wrote:I will stick to my statement, other than i’ll say it doesn’t apply to the two freshmen Givance and Newton, it’s too early for them to see what kind of players they will turn out to be. But for the rest of he roster, they are at the most one dimensional players, and my opinion not D-1 caliber players. That’s what makes it amazing what Walter and his staff have been able to achieve with them.

The term 'caliber' is kind of dicey, but part of this is that the NCAA lets programs into D1 if they meet certain criteria, and quality of play isn't on of those criteria. Hell, arguably none of the SWAC teams are D-1 and probably shouldn't be ... but they won't get any games unless they are. Without those road games, SWAC is an intramural league.
Of the current Aces, the question could be -- who'd recruit these guys? I don't know how many didn't get any offers at all and how many should maybe have chosen Ky Wesleyan instead. To that end, what sort of college education are they after? None of these guys will make a profitable pro league.
Of this group, I think Feehan is in over his head, and Frederking seems a touch slow to be a true D-1 player. Kuhlman is a nice role player on most D-1 benches. Givance is quick enough to play D1 mid-major ball but not P5/6. Chats would make any D-1 roster as a banger. Hill may get a pro contract. I think Newton is very underrated.

Summary, one wonders if WMc would recruit any of these guys if he had 50 more options. We shall see because he has a very large footprint to cover this coming recruiting season. He needs to make the UE program appealing to layers in Ind-Ky-Ill-Tenn who will be available. That's a multi-dimensional strategy.

PurpleWhiskers
Bobblehead Owner
Posts: 358
Joined: Mon Jan 01, 2018 9:35 pm
Fan Since: 1977

Re: Game Thread: Aces at SIU

Postby PurpleWhiskers » Tue Feb 12, 2019 11:19 am

JohnU wrote:The term 'caliber' is kind of dicey, but part of this is that the NCAA lets programs into D1 if they meet certain criteria, and quality of play isn't on of those criteria.


Back when the NCAA had half as many D1 teams, the United States had half the population. The composite quality now is at least as good as it was then and due to improvements in training, conditioning and facilities, I think better. Even with half the teams we have now, one could argue that most of them were not quality if we define quality as the ability to reach the Final Four consistently. In the 50s, 60s or 70s the majority of teams lacked that quality. Of course, you could shrink D1 from 353 teams down to a number that only includes the 30 or so schools who have a strong history of reaching the Final Four and the player quality would skyrocket. The result would be a sport as popular as the NBA, which is to say, only popular in the NBA market areas and only of marginal interest to anyone else except during the playoffs.

There is too much emphasis and hand wringing over basketball success in March. With automatic qualifiers, the Dance field is never the best field possible. It's purpose is to produce revenue by cultivating fan interest from coast to coast. It's about dollars, not athletic perfection. Quality, as subjective as it is, means very little. There are "quality" teams supported by football revenue who are lucky to draw 1000. They get more yawns than cheers. With renewed interest U.E averages over 5000 per game. Though not what it once was, that's more special than many realize. Every Ace is a D1 player by definition. Arguing otherwise is a parlor game. Win or lose the Aces will entertain again tomorrow night. I will be there with family and the other 5000+ and for two hours I really won't give a rat's ass about the one-and-done quality phenoms at Duke or Kentucky. It will be money well-spent.

JohnU
Road Tripper
Posts: 146
Joined: Sat Nov 17, 2018 9:10 pm
Fan Since: 1966

Re: Game Thread: Aces at SIU

Postby JohnU » Tue Feb 12, 2019 11:43 am

PurpleWhiskers wrote:
JohnU wrote:The term 'caliber' is kind of dicey, but part of this is that the NCAA lets programs into D1 if they meet certain criteria, and quality of play isn't on of those criteria.


Back when the NCAA had half as many D1 teams, the United States had half the population. The composite quality now is at least as good as it was then and due to improvements in training, conditioning and facilities, I think better. Even with half the teams we have now, one could argue that most of them were not quality if we define quality as the ability to reach the Final Four consistently. In the 50s, 60s or 70s the majority of teams lacked that quality. Of course, you could shrink D1 from 353 teams down to a number that only includes the 30 or so schools who have a strong history of reaching the Final Four and the player quality would skyrocket. The result would be a sport as popular as the NBA, which is to say, only popular in the NBA market areas and only of marginal interest to anyone else except during the playoffs.

There is too much emphasis and hand wringing over basketball success in March. With automatic qualifiers, the Dance field is never the best field possible. It's purpose is to produce revenue by cultivating fan interest from coast to coast. It's about dollars, not athletic perfection. Quality, as subjective as it is, means very little. There are "quality" teams supported by football revenue who are lucky to draw 1000. They get more yawns than cheers. With renewed interest U.E averages over 5000 per game. Though not what it once was, that's more special than many realize. Every Ace is a D1 player by definition. Arguing otherwise is a parlor game. Win or lose the Aces will entertain again tomorrow night. I will be there with family and the other 5000+ and for two hours I really won't give a rat's ass about the one-and-done quality phenoms at Duke or Kentucky. It will be money well-spent.


That's a pretty good analysis of where we were and where we are. Yeah, I get razzled every time I read that somebody like Murray beating Kentucky in November "doesn't count" because Dick Vitale didn't get to scream about it, baby.

I agree that UE administration, athletic dept and sports publicity people have a nice opportunity to turn that program into a to-do event when you go to the city. Players will buy into it and the guys who truly believe they can make an impact on the Valley stage will at least open the letter when it comes at recruiting time.

I continue to point to Gonzaga as the type of program UE can become. The fact that top players can even find the Gonzaga campus astounds me. Eastern Washington must have more than just potatoes!

(See we really can agree on things, can't we?)

User avatar
Tom Servo
Head Cheerleader
Posts: 2133
Joined: Sun Oct 20, 2013 1:08 pm
Fan Since: 1991
Location: Evansville, IN

Re: Game Thread: Aces at SIU

Postby Tom Servo » Tue Feb 12, 2019 12:53 pm

GoAcesgo wrote:
Kyace wrote:[url][/url]Last year this same team had Taylor and Smith, two players better than any current active players, and finished with 7 wins in the league. Even Blake provided decent senior leadership. Does anyone seriously think Marty could have coached this team to a better league record?

If Taylor and Smith were leaving anyway and Simmons stayed I really believe we would have been 0-16 in conference.


I agree...my Dad and I had this discussion the other day at the SIU game. What in the world would Simmons' plan have been if he stayed??? From everything we have heard Smith and Taylor were leaving regardless. That leaves the current roster, minus Givance, Feehan, and Newton. The big guy he had signed is redshirting with Delaware...which speaks for itself. The guard is playing good minutes at EKU, so he might have been effective, but still would struggle at first here, as all freshman do.

0-18 would have definitely been a possibility. Avg attendance of under 3,000 might have also been a possibility. It was getting that bad. Who in the world would score?? Who would have been the main guy that came off the screens. It appeared to me, he really had no plan at all for what he was going to do this season had he not been fired, which is probably another (of the many) reason the firing happened. I shudder to think of how terrible it would have been
8-19 .....1986
16-12 ....1987 --- MCC Champ
21-8 .....1988 --- NIT
25-6 .....1989 --- NCAA
Key point, be patient, never judge a coach on Year 1!


Return to “The Aces”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests